SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Bloom's Taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning. Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education. So a lot of families often dream of sending their son or daughter to an Ivy League top 20 or even a BSMD program. But we're talking to a founder of a company who is actually walking the walk right now. Tonight on our podcast, I'm joined by Elise Fam, the founder of the Ultimate Ivy League Guide and current Harvard student on the pre-med track. Welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Joe Sebastian. Families often ask me how to navigate the maze of college admissions and K-12 academics without spending thousands of dollars or wasting years of time. And it usually involves talking to people who have figured out the code that the schools aren't telling you. So again, I am pleased to welcome to the podcast Elise Fam. She is a Vietnamese American, first generation. She has applied to college successfully with her own resources without family, without a without a family that was familiar to the education system in America. And like I said, she is currently a Harvard student on a pre-med track. And in 2023, if getting into Harvard wasn't hard enough or difficult enough, she decided to become an entrepreneur and found the Ultimate Ivy League Guide, a mentorship program with free and paid options that has helped more than 10 million students apply and secure acceptances at Target colleges and has helped hundreds of students actually get in through her programs to top 10, top 25, all the top schools. And she is continuing to do that even today while she is a student. So, Elise, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

No, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Absolutely. So, Gyna, you know, I kind of give you the introduction, kind of give us your background in your journey to getting accepted to Harvard. Like where did it all start? Um, obviously, as a first generation American, you know, like a lot of a lot of families that I think both of us help. That is a dream, right? And how did you make that a reality?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, so I grew up raised by a single immigrant father. And I would say that most of my childhood growing up, I didn't have access to resources and a lot of other students across the country had. And so for me, it was very much trying to figure out everything by myself. And especially with my dad, who had no idea how the US education system worked, it was like a very lonely process. I remember trying to stay up and figure out how exactly I launch a passion project, how do I cold email professors, how do I write a compelling essay that will actually stand out to admission officers. And after going through endless nights of trial and error by myself, I was surprisingly able to not only get into Harvard, but also receive zero Ivy League acceptances and get accepted into all 27 colleges that I applied to. And so that was like a huge turning point for me because it made me realize that my background does not limit my potential and ability to succeed in the future. And so whenever I first stepped foot on Harvard's campus, I wanted to empower students in the same way. And so I thought about now that I'm at Harvard, how exactly can I use my privilege and my resources to help other students? And that first came in the form of content creation, which is why I have been able to grow my platforms on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, um, called Ultimate Ivy Leaf Guide to reach millions of and millions of students. And my ultimate purpose, I really wanted to democratize this very hidden college admissions process and make it known to so many students who don't know how to navigate that process and whose families don't even know where to start. And so I started making content. I started interviewing admission officers, I started talking to Harvard professors, and I even talked and participated in admission officer workshops at Harvard's Graduate School of Education in order to learn like the in and out of the admissions process and essentially just share everything that I know with people because I don't think it should be kept at all. Like I genuinely believe that if students just have the right tools and the right resources and the right mentorship, they can excel way further than they think they can. And so that was my journey, and that's what I'm continuing to do now. And yeah, my goal is honestly just to empower as many students as possible and help them see that they have so much potential way beyond um what they initially think.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

So I I really like that mission because when we talk about democratizing, I think the the biggest thing that, you know, as you or potentially like as well as me is the lack of information is that barrier, right? There you we have families that come here admitting they don't know how to navigate the system, but even families that have been here don't know that. What you know, an Ivy League student actually looks like a top 20 student looks like, because I think everyone is like, oh, you have to be a Val Victorian, you have to have these amazing grades, you have to do all these things, and that's just not true. You know, if all the Val Victorians, if only they took top students and all the all the Val Victorians, there wouldn't be enough spots in Ivy League College for all the Valvictorians in America. They're actually looking for a diverse range of kids to fill out that that profile. So kind of speak to how, like, how are you trying to get that message across to potentially, you know, I hate labeling, yeah. I'm not a math kid, I'm not a science kid, but like I'm not Ivy League material. How is how do we tell, how do we empower all to know that they actually are, that they have the potential to get into a dream school like a Harvard, like a Stanford?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. So I think it's definitely a common misconception among a lot of families that you have to, you know, be this like international Olympiad winner, and you have to do very extravagant things and cure cancer in order to get into an Ivy League. And that's actually not the case. What these top schools are really trying to do ultimately is they want a well-rounded class of very essentially focused and focused and passionate students. And so it's really all about the story that you have and the story that you tell. If you can show to colleges that like I have the potential to succeed, and even though, like, let's say I didn't necessarily, you know, win the national, like international biology competition, I have this potential, they are willing to place a bet on you because essentially these top colleges they operate like businesses, they want to stamp their name on the next world-changing leader. And so as they're like looking through applications, they are trying to figure out okay, which students should we take the risk on and which students have that potential to succeed. And in order to show that potential to colleges, it's all about how you curate your story. So if you're in the beginning of high school, I definitely recommend like defining a unique theme for your application, typically something that intersects your values, academic interests, and some specialized skills you have, develop that theme, and that that theme should essentially frame the way that you choose your classes and have tricklers throughout high school so that by the time that you are applying to colleges, you have a very streamlined story. You have something that makes sense. And if admission officers can really understand like your story, they can essentially describe you in one sentence and know that like this is your past, this is your present, and they know exactly where you're going in the future. That makes them much more likely to admit you because they see that you have this potential to succeed and they see that you have this passion that started, you know, from your childhood, from your youth, and from your personal story.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, the I like that you're focusing on that narrative because that's often what we tell families. And I think so you said well-rounded, they want a well-rounded class, not necessarily a well-rounded student. And I think that's probably where we can start going into what does it take to be a top 20, an Ivy League student, a BSMD student? Most families think my kid needs to do everything perfect, and that's actually you're saying that's a bad way to approach this. What should they be?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, so I think a lot of parents think that their student should join every single club, do every single internship, and staff their resume and fill up their entire schedule. And that is the exact opposite of what you want to do because that is how you blend in with every other high achieving student. If you really think about it, there are thousands of students all across the country. Like they are doing 20 different extra, they're getting perfect SAT forms, they're they have a perfect GPA. That is not what makes you stand out anymore in the 2026 landscape of college admissions. Really, it's all about defining your unique angle and your unique theme and committing to a few things and going deep in them. And so whenever I try to help students with extracurriculars, I try to give them at least like a basic framework to follow whenever it comes to extracurriculars so that they aren't spreading themselves in. So, for example, I usually recommend like one passion-driven project that's going to be the core of their overall story. And that's what essentially shows colleges' initiative and potential to succeed and leadership. And then I typically recommend like two academically related extracurriculars, something that is related to their major of interest, or if they don't know their major of interest, then something that reflects their intellectual curiosity that they could write about in their applications. And then also I recommend one or two extracurriculars that are related to their character and related to their values. So that could be, let's say, engaging in like cultural dances or taking part in your local church or something along those lines. I typically recommend that kind of framework in order to show colleges these three different aspects of yourself while also keeping it refined as well. So yeah, I would say like it's not about doing the most, it's about showing colleges this is what I'm passionate about, this is who I am, and here's how I've been able to go deep into it.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

So you shouldn't just go rant right out and spend six to seven thousand dollars on a random passion project that won't get you in Harvard.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah. So like I think that's also another issue that I see as well, where a lot of families are like, you know, throwing like tens of thousands of dollars at these internships that don't actually have a real outcome and don't actually lead to like a research paper or mentorship or anything tangible. I would say, of course, there are paid programs out there that I would say are like valid and like are do have like this tangible output output, for example. Like Pioneer Academics program is a good research program. Yell Young Global Scholars is also pretty renowned as well. But there's a lot of programs and like a lot of random things out there that actually just operate as like money-making machines. And so you don't need to spend so much money to get into these top colleges. Like, let me like give you an example. Like, I I talked to a Duke admissions officer and I asked him about passion projects. And I talked to him, this was January or February of last year. But essentially, like I asked him, like, okay, let's say there's a student that comes from a very average town, doesn't have many resources, should what should they do for like their passion project or what should they do to show colleges that they have the potential to succeed? And he told me a story about how there was this one girl who grew up reading a lot in her local library, and she was just obsessed with books. Like she was obsessed with like storytelling, and this was essentially her entire like childhood is storytelling and books and reading novels. And then by the time that she got to high school, she asked herself the one question of like, okay, this is my passion. How can I expand it in a way that will actually help other people? So then she started leading workshops at her local library, she started volunteering at her local library, she started helping underprivileged kids learn how to read. And so that is how she showed colleges, like, hey, even though I don't have that many resources, this is what I'm passionate about. This is how I've been able to like help people. And that shows colleges like this girl is going to take her passions and take our educational tools and be able to impact society in some way. We're going to want to stamp our name on her because she could be like the next Nobel Prize winner, right? And so that was like, I guess, like a good, good kind of like reframe of like what actually matters in college admissions. It's not about doing the most expensive or prestigious program or extracurricular out there. It's really dealt with your own passions and intersecting that with this desire to help people beyond just yourself.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

So a family comes to you, Elise. They they they come to your company. Um, we we saw your we saw your TikTok. We saw, are you on TikTok or you're on Instagram? I know you're on Instagram and YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Mainly Instagram, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Sorry, I saw you saw it. We saw you on the gram. Uh, we want we want to enroll in your program. We really, we're from California. We really want our daughter to go to Harvard. We really like she she really we really want to go to Harvard. What's the first thing you ask them?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

I would say first is figuring out if the child themselves is actually motivated to want to get to this path. Because at the end of the day, like we're not going to write your essays, we're not going to, you know, put together your entire application for you because it is your application. And while we are going to guide you through every step of the process, we want you to take agency and we want you to feel confident in your entire application process. So, first, the student themselves actually needs to be motivated and they need to understand like, hey, like this is going to take some work, but if you are willing to put in the work with our guidance and us helping you narrow down like what's the most high-leverage things you need to do, then you will be in a position where you will feel confident in your application and you'll be in a position that could maximize your chances of getting accepted. But I would say that like for us and our company, our mission isn't just to help students get into like schools. I think that's a byproduct of our central mission, which is to help students like transform themselves and transform the way that they see themselves and their potential. And that is why like we want students, we ask the students, like, hey, is this something that like you actually want to do? Right. Because that will not only help them like in the long term, but obviously with college admissions, etc., with career. So that's actually like the first thing we try to gauge is like, is this student motivated and not just the parent? Because we've had parents before where they're like more motivated than kids. They're like ready to enroll their kid in the program. They're like, oh my God, like we want our kids to be in this so bad, but then the kid is like, I'm not gonna do it, like I'm not gonna put in the work. And like that is um not the do you think for a lot of families?

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I just had a conversation with my team members of this, and just like the conversations I have with kids, you know, that because uh obviously we're at a different stage of the game with the academic piece because of the the goal is ultimately to get to these. Do you think the goalpost for a lot of these families are wrong? That's how I approach it is that their goal, their end game is to get into one of these top schools when really the Ivy Leagues they don't care about you getting in. They care that you can come through and be a product. They like why doesn't Harvard or Harvard and Yale they don't need to advertise because their people, their network is the advertisement because they have founders of Facebook, they have future presidents and past presidents that are their brand. And so is it more of is it more of we say like start with the why? Why do you why do you first off, why do you want to go to Harvard and why do you need Harvard to do what you need to do?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Exactly. Yeah, I think that a lot of students and families, and you know, I've also been a victim of this too, is like they see college admissions and that acceptance letter as the end. But really, the way that you want to think about it and the way that will actually like ironically help you in the admissions process is viewing college admissions as a means to the end. And the end is genuinely just to maximize your potential and see what you are capable of. And so if you reframe college admissions, and this is exactly what we try to do with our brand, where it's like college is a tool for you to accelerate your own path to success, whatever success means to you. And so if you reframe it like that, that actually like not only once again help you long term, but that will actually help you in the admissions process. Because like it will actually like you'll be able to explain, like, hey, this is both my short-term and my long-term goal. And this is how this college will essentially provide me a launch pad to actually reach my long-term goal. And that's whenever like colleges will start viewing you as like high value. They're like, oh, okay, like this student, like, you know, they have the potential, like let me let me admit them. And that's going to be like the college acceptance is simply just a byproduct of that.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

So, what's the number one mistake you see families make when they're trying to get into a top school or a BSMD program?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Ooh, that's a great question. The number one mistake. Let me think about this actually. Wait, there's so many. So many.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I would say I can rephrase it another way too, if you would like.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah, yeah. That would be great.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

What's the fastest way to get rejected from Harvard or another top school?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah, the fastest way to get okay, actually, yeah. So I would say like the number one mistake that a lot of students make in their application is that they think that to get into these top schools, they should try to make themselves sound as impressive as possible and as polished as possible. But that comes off as inauthentic to admission officers. Like, especially in the age of AI too. Like admission officers read tens of thousands of applications every single day where students just like list all their achievements and they're like, I did this, I did this, I did this, but like I don't really know why I did this, I just did this, right? And so actually, the essays and like applications that get in are whenever students can understand the why behind what they do. So, like, if they can tell a story of like, this is how I got, and this this is a framework that I actually recommend for like not only essays, not only interviews, I call it the PPF framework. It's a past, present, future framework. So, whenever admission officers or like supplemental essay prompts ask you about something you're interested in, instead of just like listing, like, hey, this is what I accomplished, you want to explain like where was the origin of this passion, which is the past. What have I done with this? How have I grown this? Grown this passion to something beyond just the origin, that's the present. And then where do I want to go with this in the future? And having that essentially that chronological like through line is what is most compelling to admission officers. And honestly, like from a psychological standpoint, that's how you tell a good story too. And good stories are what resonates most with admission officers. And then another thing, like as well, is like families need to understand that in the admissions process, admission officers spend max eight to 15 minutes on your application. They're not going to read everything. And so you need to be able to have that in mind so that whenever you're crafting your application, make it as simple to understand as possible. That's why I'm always like, hey, make sure you have like an application theme before you start like actually crafting your application. If you actually have a theme, you have a narrative, and you know exactly what you want to tell, and like the main idea you want to get to admission officers, then everything in your application will just be so much more cohesive. And that is what is going to make you memorable in the admissions room.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

This episode is brought to you by Supported Tutoring, where we don't just help students get better grades, we help them become critical thinkers. Whether it's mastering AP exams, maximizing college applications, or building lifelong learning habits, our expert tutors focus on critical thinking, confidence, and real growth. Head to supportedtutoring.com to find the support your student deserves. So my at least my daughter is going to apply to all eight Ivy Lee schools and Stanford and U of Chicago. And she is going to use the exact same essay for all ten of those schools. Why is that a horrible idea?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, so especially the why us essay, that is actually like one of the most important supplemental essays that you will have to write. And so, okay, for a little bit of context for families that might not know the admissions process and Common App. So in Common App, you have a personal statement, which is a 650-word essay about your life that is sent to every school that you apply to. And then each school also has their own supplemental essays. And for many of these schools, one of the supplemental essay prompts are going to be like a why us supplemental essay prompt, which is essentially asking, like, why do you want to go out in school? And a lot of students will make a copy and paste essay for the supplemental essay prompt, which is like, please do not do that. Because the reason why is like if for every why us supplemental essay, like if I can copy and paste exactly what you're saying between schools, then you are not being specific enough to like how this school is going to be the next stepping stone for your long-term goals. And so I always recommend students, like, you need to do some deep research into like the curriculum structure of the school, the unique programs that the school offers, how exactly this school in comparison to other schools is going to turbo boost your path to long-term success. And so I'll give you an example. Like for my Harvard, whenever like my interviewer asked me, like, hey, why didn't you want to apply to Harvard? I wasn't just like, oh, it's like the most prestigious school, like, you know, it's great in medicine. Like, I can say that for any other school. I can say that for Johns Hopkins. Like, you know, Johns Hopkins, great medical, like great medical scenery and has lots of great resources, great professors as well. I'm not going to tell that to an animation officer. Instead, what I said was, hey, so yeah, like, you know, growing up, I was not only interested in science, but like one of my biggest values was community. And so I think one intersection that I really want to explore in college is this intersection between like medicine and society and potentially also like overall just health equity and health structures. And I noticed that Harvard specifically and is the only school that has a medicine and society track. And so that is going to allow me to explore this intellectual curiosity that I have. And not only that, but like also Harvard is adjacent to Mass General Hospital and all of these like other big like cancer research labs, like Dana Farber, um Boston Children's. And so it's in the perfect place for me to continue this pre-med passion that I've had since I was younger, whenever my mom was diagnosed with cancer, right? So like really connecting my story and like being specific on the exact resources that I want to take advantage of at Harvard. And I did end up taking advantage of those resources, right? Like freshman year, you know, I got a research in and mass general hospital. I did cancer research and I took advantage of those resources. And so you have to be able to like be specific on like what what aspects of a school you're going to take advantage of that actually will help you with your long-term goals.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

There's the fastest way to get rejected to hardware right now. Because it's a good school.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

No, grab. If someone asks, if an admission officer or interviewer says, like, hey, why do you want to go to, I don't know, Princeton? And you're like, it's like the number one school on U US Need rankings. Like say bye to your acceptance letter. Like, honestly. Yeah, please, please do not note prestige um whenever whenever school asks like why you want to attend their school.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, they they know they're good, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Exactly. Like people yes. That's also another thing, too. Like, also don't just for these essays, I'll give students a tip. Don't just restate things about the school that you want to take advantage of. Schools already know what they have, they already know that they're good and they already know that they have these amazing resources. What they want to know is how your story and your identity connects to the school. And so whenever I help students write these why us level essays, I always tell them, like, hey, before you start listing things about the school that you want to take advantage of, you need to establish your own identity and your own values first. And so, if you know, let's say you are someone that values balance, like you are both a scientist and an artist. You um come from a small town, but you love going to New York to explore the big city. And then Columbia is the perfect balance of that because it is, you know, a closed campus within a larger city, and like it also reflects the values of balance, or like, you know, make sure that you are able to establish your own values and your own identity and show the school how your own identity aligns with school. That that is the best way to approach these essays.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

So I probably don't need to tell you this, although I am very impressed with you know your company and your acquisition of growing organically. So I said I think that's a speaks to your like authenticity and uh the value you're bringing to the college coaching, college application field. Because a lot of people use paid advertisements, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of the paid advertisements of some of the, I'm gonna call them now big box brands, college admission companies. How are you different than a lot of the marketing ads that we see on Facebook and YouTube? What makes Ultimate IV League Guide a more authentic route to getting the experience and ultimately the acceptance that students are looking for?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah. I think that what makes us different is the heart, soul, and mission of our brand. I think a lot of college admissions companies out there, they are selling the same like high-ticket service that reinforces just like, oh, this is only for a limited class of people. And for us, or like, and also like in addition to that, I think that for a lot of college admission companies, like their goals, like they advertise as, oh, like, okay, get the acceptance and like that's it, like buy after that, right? For us, that is not the point of why we operate. First, the reason why I like the reason why I post content every single I post multiple times a day, and I spent hours just writing free guides, free resources for students is because I believe nothing should be gatekeeped. And I think a lot of college admission companies try to like gatekeep the like we have the secret to get accepted. There's no secret to get accepted. It's like there's there's not like a hack to college admissions. And so, first for us, like we really believe in educating students and disseminating that information. Second, our goal is not the college acceptance itself, it's being able to help students like find their passion genuinely. I think like for a lot of our students, a lot of the underclassmen that have enrolled in our program, I think one of the most meaningful moments for me is whenever, you know, they message me after and they say, like, of course, like they get the college acceptance, they get into Columbia, UPen, whatever their dream school is, but they're they tell me like the most transformative part about being in your program wasn't the college acceptance. I realized that like it's like I was I had the wrong goal of college acceptance. And what I found was so much more meaningful, where I was able to understand myself, my passions. And through through initiating this passion project and reflecting on my own story, I have a much better sense of self and I feel a lot more confident and ready to navigate the world. And whenever students tell me that, I'm like, this is exactly like what this is what it's supposed to be for. Like the college admissions process, the point of it is not to get net the point of it is not necessarily to get into college, the point of it is to understand yourself and be able to have a vision for where you want to go in the future.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

So you're saying there's I'm sorry. Yeah, so you're saying there's no secret to college admissions.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

There's not there's like no like half, there's no like if you put this on your application, then you're 100% going to get accepted. Like there is no like hap for that. It's all about how can you tell your story so authentically that you don't even have to compete with other students because you're in your own lane. And that's essentially what we help our students do, right? We help them break down like their core values, we help them understand what are the points of their story that that are going to be most high-leverage in their education. And then we enhance that and we double down on that so that that becomes their story. And they had such a unique angle that now they're not even competing with other students because they're in like a whole different lane. And that's essentially what what we do to help students position themselves in the best place possible to get accepted into these top schools and their target schools.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

So psychologically, it's the opposite strategy. You shouldn't even want to go. You should, they should want you.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, I think a lot of college admission companies will like use this like cookie cutter method, and they're like, if you use this like one method, like you're going to get in. And then they do that for every single one of their students in their program. And I'm like, that's the exact, that's exactly like you're going to blame if you do that. Like it's all about creating your own unique angle.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Where do you think we're going with college emissions in the next 10 or let's say five years? Where do you think it's good? Where do you think the game is going in the next five years? Because it has become super popular with companies. It's become the college emissions itself has gotten exponentially more competitive. Like I have a parent in our program, him and his wife, he's a co-founder of a multimillion dollar company. His wife's a doctor. They both met him at NYU. He's like, Joe, when we went, it was NYU was a commuter school. It wasn't a super selective school. And now it's like it's on the top of super hard to get into. Where is it all going?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're in a really interesting era with a lot of transitions. And I'll kind of explain like what I've seen in the job market too, and how I think this will also like trickle down into college admissions. Like in the job market, right? There's students, you know, graduating from their undergraduate program and not able to get jobs because they just didn't have the experience and they don't have this like understanding of self to be able to explain themselves to job hirers in order to get like their career. It's I what I've noticed in the job market now is it's emphasizing skill and experience a lot more, and then also interpersonal skills as well. So like communication and things like that. And essentially a lot of these companies are trying to evaluate like people's potential, people's decision-making abilities, people's judgment, um, and how they've been able to like execute that in the past. And so I think that with college admissions, it's going to move in a similar route where it's not going to be about like the perfect test score, the perfect GPA or any of that. Because honestly, like even at Harvard, like they released a report in October that I believe it was around like 70, 60, 70%. I don't know the exact number, so don't quote me on this, but it was around that range. That's how many students had like perfect A's at Harvard. And so getting perfect test scores and having like the perfect profile is not enough to stand out anymore. It's all about being able to show that you've experienced things in life and you've learned things in life. And I've even come to see that like even they've emphasize more like interpersonal skills too. So for example, with I believe it's like schoolhouse portfolios, schoolhouse portfolios, like a lot of schools, such as like U Chicago, started accepting like schoolhouse portfolios, which is essentially like a rating, like a peer rating of how you how you engage with and navigate very controversial topics and conversations. And so, and there's a lot of schools that are also doing like emphasizing interviews more and even potentially doing like vocal essays instead of like written essays because of AI. And so I think it's going to all come down to being able to develop like your storytelling skills, being able to develop and show that you have had experience with your passions, and of course, being able to do more than just like be the cookie cut cutter, perfect valedictorian with a 1600 SAT. It's all about like, here's my story, here are my experiences, here's what I've learned. And that was essentially, I think, what colleges will start emphasizing more in the admissions landscape. But yeah, I definitely have seen like it's gotten more and more competitive every year. And so that makes that will make colleges like ask a question like, how can we differentiate students now? And it's not going to be test scores, it's not going to be GPA, it's not going to be these expensive programs or awards. It's going to be who the student is.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

All right, Elise, we're going to end with lightning round. Now, I got a special lightning round. I got several questions lined up for this. So no explanation needed unless you absolutely, absolutely want to. We got a quite okay. All right. All right, here we go. GPA or extracurriculars?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Extracurriculars.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Test scores still important or overrated.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Still important, but less emphasized than in 2020.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Public school or private school advantage?

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Both, because admission officers will evaluate your profile based on your school context.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Essay, make them laugh or make them cry.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Make them make them understand how you think through your experiences.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Most overrated activity students put on applications.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

National Honor Society.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Oh, everyone is in that. Leadership title or real impact.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Real impact.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

SAT or ACT.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

SAT.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Early decision, yes or no?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yes. For your top school, and if you can 100% commit without financial aid needs.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Biggest red flag on an application.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Biggest red flag. Just trying to just trying to be like the bragger. You're just like listing everything. All your accomplishments.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

One word colleges hate seeing an essays.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Leadership.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

One word colleges love seeing an essays.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Learned.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Passion project or well-rounded student?

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Passion project.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Better perfect grades or upward trend.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Upward trend.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

How many activities is too many?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Over ten.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Recommendation letters actually matter or not really?

SPEAKER_00 40:59

They matter.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Interviews, make or break or just a formality?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Depends on the school. There's actually two types of interviews. So like MIT, it will matter. But for Harvard, it's more about does your character align with the rest of what you're saying on your application?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Most stressful part for students of the application process.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Knowing how to even start.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Hmm. What do you mean by that? Just like, you mean which part of the journey, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 41:31

I would say like knowing how knowing how to present themselves. A lot of students don't know, like they they, instead of like thinking of it like, okay, here's a bunch of like all these like different things I'm doing, and like let me just throw it together. I think it's best to think about the end goal of like what do you want admission officers to understand about you and then work backwards from there.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

All right. Last question. Are admissions really fair?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

That's the secret.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

There's so many things that are not in your control, whether that's like institutional priorities or just the overall, like what colleges are trying, how colleges are like changing their values that year or something like that. So families need to understand there's a lot of things that are not in your control, too.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

All right, Lisa. Before we wrap up, what's one thing you want to leave families with, like one thing they have to know about in terms of college missions or one piece of advice with uh with this whole with this whole process? What's one thing you want them to know?

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Your story is your superpower.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Love that. Well, thank you so much for your time, Elise. I appreciate us connecting and you coming on the podcast. For families who are interested in learning more about who you are, what your company offers, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Yeah, so we're on Instagram at Ultimate Ivy League Guide. And you can also find us on YouTube as well. And then for our website, you can just search up Ultimate Mentor.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

All right. And we'll put all those links in the show notes and include them in the YouTube description as well. Families, thank you again for tuning in to the Supported Learning Podcast. Alice has been a pleasure. We'll catch you next time.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Thank you. Thanks for joining us on the Supported Learning Podcast. If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker. We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together. Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.