SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Bloom's Taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning. Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

What do you do when a traditional classroom isn't working for your kid, but you don't want to give up on rigorous learning? Cassie O'Geen works inside Out School, one of the biggest online learning marketplaces in the country. She's helped thousands of families build personalized, interest-driven learning paths that actually work. Today we're breaking down that playbook. Welcome back to the Support Learning Podcast. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian. Families often ask me how to navigate the maze of college prep without wasting thousands of dollars in years of time, and the answer usually involves finding the people who have figured out the rules of the game that schools aren't telling you. That's why I'm thrilled to have Cassie O'Geem here today. Cassie is the alternative education content and events manager at Out School, a leading marketplace for live, interactive online classes with a background in human development and years of training online educators and supporting families through alternative learning. She's a true expert on what actually works when you take learning beyond the four walls of a classroom. So we're going to dive into interest-driven learning, how to engage students over video, and how parents can use online enrichment to get their kids an edge, whether they're in traditional show or not. Cassie, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Absolutely. Good to have you. I've given them the 60-second or I've given them the highlight reel. I want to hear from you the 60-second snapshot. Who are you? What's the specific problem you solve for students and families?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, I'm Cassie. Like you said, I work for Out School. We're an online ed tech company providing really engaging classes for kids ages three to 18 in both traditional and non-traditional classroom or settings in their personal lives. One of the things that I love the most about this company is the ability to individualize education, bring a new way of thinking about education to families and to students. And it's just been an exciting journey to see that take place in exponential ways over the last two years.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah. Let's kind of dive into that and how you got into this space in the first place. Because your background isn't just ed tech, it's actually rooted in how kids develop. So your degree is in human development, correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Um, actually, political science is my degree. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

So how did you go from that to running content and events on one of the biggest online learning platforms?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So yeah, I mean, my background is in law and legal studies. And um, I did work in that field for about a decade. And I kind of really fell into this mostly because of my background. You know, I love all things learning. My mom was a retired special ed teacher, my in-laws were teachers, um, my brother-in-law was a teacher. I feel like everyone in my life was a teacher. And, you know, I loved traditional education growing up. I was a public school kid. I did not do private school any type of alternative ed. That being said, even in my school years, I felt like something was missing, something didn't sit well, sit right, but I was good at school. I played the game, as you said, and I was good at the game and, you know, fast forward to college, was good at that game too. And then got out of college. And when we started having kids, kind of just realized that the traditional education space wasn't really something that we wanted to put our kids into. Our oldest did go to traditional school as a kindergartner, and then post-kindergarten, we pulled her out and we began homeschooling. So that's really where my journey began to lead me to she's about to turn 18. So it was quite a while ago. I'm dating myself, but she was alternatively ed, you know, educated through her entire career in school and is now graduated from high school. Um, you know, I really fell into this space because my daughter was a dancer and she needed to go on to point shoes, and they are expensive. So I got a part-time job working at out school, helping plan alternative programming for kids during COVID, during the height of COVID when everyone was home and learning online. There really was no other way to learn at the time, but a lot of parents were overwhelmed and they needed, you know, help and support. So I was working part-time doing that, and then that role just evolved over time. And, you know, a lot of our market at Out School is families, our families who alternatively ed their kids. A lot of our market is families who have kids with different needs. And one of my children um is autistic and also has OCD and ADHD. So I kind of am and the the persona of a lot of our market in various ways. And so just kind of felt fell into speaking that voice to our company, and that evolved into event and content planning. And I I am incredibly extroverted. So that's worked out well for me. And um, it's just something I really enjoy being able to speak about and helping people find that path that helps their kids thrive.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

I love that. Kind of get into what makes Out School differ from just classes on Zoom. What's the model actually doing?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah, so I mean, you know, we're backed, we're backed by real educators, live teachers who have either created their own curriculums, who are using popular homeschool curriculums. A lot of our teachers are former classroom educators who are taking the curriculum they were teaching in the classroom and teaching it now online in really truly engaging ways, right? Lots of, lots of project-based learning, interest-based learning, hands-on. My kids have done everything from mummified chicken legs while learning about ancient Egypt to participating in mock trials, to creative writing, and to one-on-one tutoring. So we offer such a breadth of options that are incredibly engaging, where kids are just not sitting listening to a video, not engaging with a real person, and there's real kids in their classrooms. So obviously we have tutoring options which are one-on-one, but they are forming relationships with other kids from across the country and even across the globe, because we have a lot of international students as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

So I guess that's interesting because you know, Zoom really exploded in learning across the pandemic and it it's gotten, I think, a negative connotation with online learning. But you talk about interest-driven learning for a parent listening. What does that actually mean? And what does that look like in real life for a kid?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, um, I mean, speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that that means like for my daughter who's autistic, that means, you know, she hates math. She thinks it's at one point in her life, she told us math has no place in this world. Nobody needs to know math. So rather strong opinion about math. So it, you know, it means taking a subject that is harder to teach or harder for the student to grasp or wrap their head around and finding something that they're interested in to then teach that harder-to-teach subject, right? So find for her, it could be fine, you know, using manipulatives and then using manipulatives in with things that she likes, like gems or little figurines that are things she likes. It can mean um, like we have a set of classes on our platform taught by an incredibly awesome teacher that are geography classes where she is quite literally using Minecraft to teach geography. So she has created these entire worlds where kids are coming and they're building the entire continent of Africa or, you know, Europe, and they're building it within Minecraft in a safe, monitored environment. They're putting in the countries, they're putting in the capitals, they're learning the geography of all the various countries through an interest that they have, Minecraft, right? So you're taking sometimes it can be, hey, we're gonna do science and a standard in a state might say you're gonna do a specific science that year, but my kid is really into space. So we're going to do the planets and black holes and shooting stars and learn all there is to learn about space and really drive home a topic that they're interested in rather than a topic that, you know, schools often are just like forcing kids to learn things that they have no interest in. And sometimes that's completely necessary, right? We all have to learn how to read. We all have to learn how to write, things like that. And you may not really like writing, but you need to learn how to do it effectively. But then there's a lot of like, hey, let's take four years of science. And some kids don't need four years of science. Um, so it's it's kind of that taking things that kids are interested in in an effort to get them excited about learning and to get them excited about maybe topics that they weren't excited about to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

So I guess there is this fear that interest-driven means, like easy or unrigorous, like the kids just play Minecraft all day. Like, how would you respond to that?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's a valid concern, right? Because it could mean that. But it definitely doesn't necessarily mean that. You know, we we've seen kids. Um, I was able to have the privilege of hosting this event earlier this calendar year. Uh we called it Mars Live. And it was quite literally a teacher on our platform who was visiting the Mars Desert Research Station in Utah for two weeks and going through a Mars simulation. And he, you know, we put together kind of a Mars simulation as if we were on Earth. He's on Mars and we are communicating with a time delay and we are looking at what that would look like if we were to ever colonize Mars. And really, the the most amazing part of that event was the students who came on to the live event with us. And these kids are incredibly fascinated in astronomy, in NASA and outer space and aerodynamics and all kinds of things, they were much smarter than I am. And the way they were able to communicate, it was completely interesting learning. One of the kids, all on his own, figured out ways to be a part of different things with NASA and like actually named some something that went into space for NASA. And they're they're doing really hard things. These kids are taking college-level classes at high school level, you know, at the at the high school age. They're diving into things that they're interested in in a really in-depth way that is very rigorous. And they're doing, I mean, two of the kids on the call were are already pilots. There are like they've already got their pilots' licenses. And they're, but that was something that alternative education gave them the space in the room to tap the time to do those things and dive deep into things that you know they may not have had the chance to do if they were in a traditional education space.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Like engagement over video could obviously be very hard and difficult, especially in online learning. So you've trained thousands of online educators. What's the difference between the teachers who keep kids engaged and the ones who lose them in the first five minutes?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely teachers that are outgoing, teachers who are finding it's not just a lecture, you know, like nobody wants to just be lectured at and talked at, even in person. We don't really want that. So it's teachers who are using things like NearPod, who are using different engaging apps and platforms to bring them into the classroom. I've seen art teachers who have, you know, multi-cameras set up. So you're seeing their face while you're also looking at the art they're creating. And you're be you're able to see how they classroom manage in a really unique way in an online setting that helps kids stay engaged. There's live conversation, there's chatting, there's a you know, chat feed within the classroom like most Zooms have. But these kids, all of our classes also have classrooms that they like digital classrooms that the teachers and the kids visit when they're not live. So they can share pictures of their artwork, they can ask questions, they can engage with each other throughout the week. And some of the best teachers are doing that, but they're prompting, they're putting prompting questions in those classrooms. They're posting how-tos, they're asking the kids for feedback so that then when they're connecting during a live meeting, it's that much more engaging. They have relationships throughout the week. When they get to that live meeting, then it's more engaging. But, you know, educators just finding unique ways to engage kids. My my kids took a class a number of years ago now where it was a three-part class. They met over at the course of three weeks. And the person who taught it was an attorney, and she was teaching introduction to like courtroom procedure. What is the judge? What's the bailiff? Who's the plaintiff in the defense? Those types of things. What's an objection? And she taught it through through like nursery rhyme fairy tales. So she used like Goldilocks and the three bears as an example. And she taught them all of this terminology and all these things. And then she set up, she set the scene, right? And she's like, well, let's talk about this. Goldilocks technically was trespassing. So Goldilocks is going to be on trial now for trespassing. And she split the class into two groups and had them argue live, you know, their sides of the somebody's representing the three bears, somebody's representing Goldilocks, and put that practical use, you know, put the things they learned into practice, which is an incredibly gauging way to teach. We have some teachers. My kids have taken one of our very popular classes on the platform is Introduction to Veterinary Science, taught by a real veterinarian. She brings live animals onto the screen. They do a whole exercise where they learn how to diagnose animals with their problems and what's going on. So it's just, it's not, you know, just anybody could read from a textbook and say, well, you know, dog is sick. These are the things that they exhibit. And, you know, here's how it would work. It's a totally different experience to give them a scenario and then say, okay, how are we going to figure this out? Let's problem solve, let's critical think, to come up with what this dog's issue is. And so just teachers who are coming up with these innovative ways to teach that are very engaging and incredibly, they're just incredibly resourceful when it comes to the things that they're able to do. And another thing that our our teachers do is provide like supply lists prior to class so that there's, if there are supplies that are needed, there is a lot of engagement and activity that's taking place by each of the students as well, which helps keep them engaged in the digital classroom.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

So you mentioned before that you work with a lot of neurodivergent learners and kids who don't necessarily fit the conventional classroom. What are you seeing there? Like what's working for those kids that the system isn't giving them?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. You know, building an education that's non-traditional allows for flexibility that a traditional classroom just typically cannot provide. You know, and it's not because teachers don't want to in, you know, most cases. It's just their hands are tied, right? And there's only so much you can do within the confines of four walls and a strict schedule that they have to maintain and a strict set of standards that they're having to teach. The beauty of a non-traditional education or, you know, doing something like out school or a micro school or different things is the ability to like take breaks. Breaks are such a big thing for my daughter, right? She cannot sit and learn for six hours straight. It's just too much. So the ability to get up and take a walk when she needs to, we can we control when we schedule her. So I can schedule two classes in the morning, a class in the afternoon, give her lots of breaks between. We can do some hands-on one-on-one learning. We can do an uh, you know, a virtual class in the afternoon if we want, take a break to go outside. That's the other thing. She can learn anywhere, and she does. She'll do, she'll take out school classes out on the trampoline in our backyard. She'll do them laying on the floor. She'll do her math homework, you know, sitting outside at a table. So the ability to take a break, or if they're having a really bad day, which I mean it happens for all of us, but can definitely happen for kiddos with some different, you know, needs, um, you're able to really customize that education to something that works for them. If you're in a hard season, you can take a break. You don't need to push everything all the time like a traditional classroom setting can.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Let's talk about community because a lot of parents worry that being online means that you're isolated. So, how do you build a real connection and social development in a virtual classroom?

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Um, yeah, you know, that's one of the things things, sorry, that's one of the things I think is beautiful about this space is a lot of kids, especially for kids with neurodiverse needs, like there's often a lot of social anxiety that's taking place in a traditional classroom. They don't feel comfortable speaking, they don't feel comfortable um with that many people or the ambient noise, different things like that. So sometimes it's actually easier for them to connect in an online environment where they can mute if they need to. They can turn their camera off if they're feeling shy today. Um, and that actually gives them the encouragement often to pipe up, to start connecting. And the ability to type in chat is sometimes less intimidating for kids than it is to have to like read something out loud. You know, a lot of my my daughter, sometimes we start her with a one-on-one so she can get used to that teacher first and then go into the group setting where she's already comfortable with the teacher and the expectations, the questions she's going to be asked, type of a thing, and then move from there. So that's, you know, that's definitely one of those things that I think happens. I was on a call earlier today with a parent from out school who was discussing that. She she does a homeschool, she homeschools her kids in Florida. She was at a homeschool co-op and learned about another kid walked up to her her son and was like, Hey, are you so-and-so from this club I'm in on out school? Because we have like chat clubs, right? That are safe. They can talk about interest-based things. And he goes, Well, no, I'm not, but what is that? You know, I'm I'm I'm curious to find out about that. And so he's joined some clubs and he's now actually met some kids through that. They're a family that travels quite a lot. They do a lot of road schooling. And they've met some people who they've now actually met in real life that they will, as they're traveling, that they're meeting in real life and forging those connections. Um, my daughter met a little girl in a class a couple of years back. They could made a connection, loved each other so much. Mom and I connected and we found another class for them to take that they wanted to be able to take together. So these relationships are forming. And I think the really cool thing is that it's taking them outside of their bubble, right? Like it's taking them outside. They're learning, you know, they're learning about different parts of the country, different parts of the world through these relationships that they maybe wouldn't otherwise learn because the kids at the local school are all going to live in our community. So it's really taking them outside of just their little local bubble and helping them to forge forge relationships outside of that small little bubble, which I think is so much more true to real life now, right? There's more and more virtual jobs, more and more working with people across culturally from across the country or across the world. And that's very likely going to be something that a lot of our kids face in 10, 15 years when they're in the workforce. So I think it's actually giving them a real taste of what real life might be for them when they are joining, you know, society in that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

This episode is brought to you by Supported Tutoring, where we don't just help students get better grades, we help them become critical thinkers. Whether it's mastering AP exams, maximizing college applications, or building lifelong learning habits, our expert tutors focus on critical thinking, confidence, and real growth. Head to supportedtutoring.com to find the support your student deserves.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

What do you think the biggest mistake errants make when they bring when they try to bring online or alternative learning to their kids' life?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Oh boy. I think one of the biggest mistakes they make is trying to replicate school at home. You know, is is kind of the reason most people, not everybody, but the reason most people have chosen a non-traditional route is because something about the traditional route wasn't working for them. That something is different for almost everybody, right? But something wasn't working. And so now they're in this non-traditional, you know, setting. And the tendency is to just replicate everything that was going on in school, the same hours of the day, the same rigidity. We're all that we're gonna sit at a desk every day. I I knew, I mean, I've been homeschooling or alternative educating for 12 years now, and I knew I wanted to do it. Like I have friends who were forced into it for medical reasons or different things, right? I knew I wanted this, and I still, it still took me like two years to like de-school my brain and go, like, no, I'm I don't have to conform to this. I don't have to teach California history in fourth grade if I don't want to. I can teach something else. We could do California history a different year, you know. Oh, we're going on a road trip this summer. Let's spend a bunch of time this year learning about national parks while, you know, before we do this trip, as opposed to something else. So I think that is one of the biggest mistakes people can make is trying to fit the alternative education path into the traditional butt bubble.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So try and make like what they know as school is that school outside of school.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

How about teachers that are transitioning to the online, like this classroom? What do they get wrong when they teach online?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Um, I think that it can be the same thing. I think that, you know, or fall similarly in line where, you know, especially for teachers who are, yeah, coming from that traditional space, you know, one of the things, excuse me, I look for often when I'm looking at teacher, um, teacher profiles when I'm picking a class is a teacher who's either been doing it for a little while and or has a some sort of alternative education background. Maybe they homeschooled their own kids, maybe they worked in a micro school. Or a hybrid school or something like that. Just because then I'm like, okay, their mindset is similar to mine. How they want to teach, what you know, how what they value. Schools, the system, and I don't think all teachers love this from personal conversations with teachers, I know, but like schools value metrics and standardized testing and meeting the standards and all of that stuff, right? Um, they define success in a specific way in a lot of cases. Alternative education tends to define success much differently. You know, I don't, I don't care what a standardized test says about my kid. I don't, you know, my my oldest who just graduated from high school could not read at grade level until she was about sixth grade, sixth, seventh grade, and then just skyrocketed, just graduated from high school with a year and a half of college, already done. And, you know, and has because she dual enrolled and did fabulously. So, you know, so it's definitely, I think, for teachers, again, kind of de-schooling their brains from that traditional mindset of what success looks like.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

So screen time is a huge concern for parents. And it's actually getting banned at a lot of schools, like screens are getting banned at schools, phones are getting banned at schools. How do you separate good screen time, like an engaged learning class, from the bad kind?

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, I mean, I think that that definitely comes that's different for every family, right? For us, for my family, for a lot of people who use out school, it is that, you know, you're actively engaging with a teacher online or other students or all of the above online. You are learning. There's it's much different to me to be in a live classroom where you're learning about something, even if it's a fun thing, even if you're doing art projects, or you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be completely academic, but you're you're learning, you're making your minds working, you're doing something creative, whatever that is, you're connecting with other people over shared interests, versus mindlessly scrolling Instagram. You know, I mean, it's it's a definite different, I've that is so much different to me. And not that we don't all have a mindless Instagram scroll here and there and kind of need to give our brain a break, but um, especially for kids and teenagers, there is something engaging uh that is different about that than the engagement that is taking place with like TikTok and you know, those types of things that are just not that they're not funny, not that they're not, they can't even be educational in their own way, right? But it's it's it's a different thing. Plus, I think that the false sense of reality that a lot of social media platforms give our kids is not helpful versus these forums where they're actually learning things in a on a platform like Out School that are diving into their interests, that are helping them connect with other people, that are really growing them as human beings.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah, well said. But what about the fear of parents that my kid won't pay attention to a screen for that? What's actually on there? What's the fix?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, you know, a lot our like I said earlier, our platform is for kids ages three to 18. So, you know, obviously a five-year-old has a much different attention span than a 17-year-old. So our teachers are so wonderful about understanding, you know, what is age level appropriate. So most classes at the age of, you know, three, four, five are like 20 minutes long, maybe a half hour. There's a lot more movement-based classes, art projects, you know, things, circle time, things like that. And that is part of what keeps them very engaged and short and sweet. You know, a five-year-old's probably not going to sit through an hour long class and like say, stay super engaged. Some might, but most probably aren't. Um, it's not till you get into the older grades that we have classes that are like 60 minutes, even sometimes 90 minutes, because it might be a science class where they're doing an experiment, it needs to be a little bit longer, et cetera. Um, so I think that there is a concern there, obviously, for attention, especially at a younger age, which is one of the reasons that I always encourage parents like, don't sign up for like a seven-week class when they're, you know, make sure it's the right teacher. It may not be the right fit for your kid. Um, it may not be right the topic. Try something out once, see what happens. If you have concerns, reach out to the teacher first. Um, you can message any of our teachers prior to enrolling in their classes. So it's something that's something I take advantage of a lot with my daughter who's autistic, and here's what she's at, here's where she needs. She's probably gonna need redirection, different things like that, and let the teacher know ahead of time so they're better set up for success. And our teachers welcome things like that. So, you know, I would just say, and again, that good that goes back to interest-based learning too for me. Find something they're interested in for the first time they're gonna do this. If they need math tutoring, because they're really struggling in math, don't stick them into a math class like tutor online the very first time they're doing anything online. Find a fun class first to kind of help them get a lay of the land, what the classroom feels like, what the whole thing's about, and then go into the stuff that maybe they're not as excited to do or is a little bit harder for them.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

So AI is everywhere now in education with chatbots, tutors, AI lesson planning, AI graded essays. When we're seeing it at Out School, what's working and what's the hype?

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Okay, sorry, say that again for me.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, just what's working with AI and what's like just hype.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah, I mean, I think that AI is not going anywhere. So, you know, so I mean, even in the last three months, I feel like I've seen it just more and more and more. And being put to good use in a lot of cases. I think that, you know, there are things to be concerned about. We have teachers who are teaching, you know, responsible AI usage classes on our platform so that kids are, you know, embracing the fact it's not going anywhere. But how are we teaching this generation to handle this responsibly? Kind of like how my generation had to learn how to handle the internet responsibly for the first time. And our parents had no idea how to teach us that because they didn't have the internet. So, you know, we're we're facing that same same issue because we're learning AI right alongside our kids. Um, but I think that um we're seeing AI do some really cool things and in in seeing kids do some really cool things with AI and learning how they can implement these programs to create apps, to create systems, to create skills that are helping them, you know, with executive functioning skills, with different things. I think that's that for a neurodivergent learner is an incredible tool that you can create these tools with AI that help their brain focus, that help them, you know, get on track with the things, help them keep all of their assignments and the various things they've got going, you know, create systems that work for their brain. I'm still on a quest. Um, you know, I have ADHD myself, and like I'm still on a quest to find the perfect to-do list app because I just can't find anything. I've tried all kinds of different things that exist, and I just can't find anything that quite works the way my brain works. And so I think that's places where it's not hype. It's actually helping kids thrive in a way that they weren't before. And I'm kind of excited to see what, you know, the next generation does with that and hopefully approaching it from a responsible way. Because I do think there's a lot to be talked about around ethics and, you know, different things with AI as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Where do you see alternative and online learning going in the next five years? Is it still niche or is it becoming more mainstream?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Definitely more mainstream. Um, I think, I mean, even in the decade plus I've been doing this, alternative education has blown up. Clearly, COVID took took something that was kind of like this trickling and went like this. Um, you know, but you know, not just with alternative education, but online learning. Everybody had to online learn for a while. So so I don't I don't think it's going anywhere. I think we're gonna see evolution in it. I think that, you know, people are gonna be less excited about the non-engaging parts of online learning and really gravitate more towards that. I mean, I think that's a part of that AI conversation too, is gravitating towards the human connection, an actual teacher teaching versus maybe an AI tutor, but AI having a place. I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think that they can coexist together in a way that we're gonna we're already starting to see, but I think we're gonna see even more. And I don't think that, you know, I was having a conversation with someone last week about that, what you mentioned earlier about, you know, less cell phones in schools now. Some schools are taking away Chromebooks, you know, different things like that are going on where my generation, like many people, turned in essays handwritten still, you know, we didn't even all do them on computers yet. And now everything is turned in digitally for the most part. And um, and kind of that pendulum is swinging back in the other direction. And I hope we don't swing so far back into the only ever handwriting, only ever, you know, no, no technology at all, because our kids do need to learn technology. It's, I mean, it's a part of our lives. It's here to stay. So um, I do think that it's just going to evolve. And I hope that it will continue to evolve in an engaging, responsible way. Um, and I think it's opening doors to more and more kids across, you know, the world. And I think that that's something we're gonna see as one of the benefits. You're able to, I mean, that's one of the great things about out school, right? Like I worked with a a school district in Alaska where quite literally the only way in and out of this town is a prop plane. There's no roads to get in and out. So if you want, you know, I live in a large city in California. So if I need a piano teacher for my kids, there's like, you know, 25 in the two mile radius around me. But in some of these more rural communities, they don't have access to certain things. You want to learn French? Well, there may not be a French teacher, but you can get one on out school. You know, there may not be someone you could connect with that's super interested in stamp trading, you know, but you can find someone online who can provide that connection with you and help you learn more about a topic you're interested in. So I don't think that online learning is going anywhere. And I just think that, you know, what we need to do is find a healthy balance for online connection and in-person connection.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

If I can play devil's advocate for a second, let's do it. Some parents would say online learning can't replace a real classroom. Kids need to be with other kids in person. What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Um, I would say that there's that's that's a fair concern. I would say that talk to kids who are being alternative edit educated, though, and most are doing both. Most are finding the balance between both. So, you know, it's it most of these kids, even if they're in a full online school during the day, are still playing sports, are still, you know, in some sort of scouting, are still doing volunteer work in person, are still taking music classes in person, they're still have getting that connection in person. They're just also getting connection online. And, you know, I would also say, like, I work for a remote company. My boss lives across the country from me. Some of my best friends who I work with live in various parts of the country. I can tell you it's a blast to be able to travel and see different friends now that live all over the country. You know, that's that is the future too. So that connection is real. I have many, I mean, that's for me is actually one of the hardest parts of being so extroverted and working for a company that is remote, is that like I want to be like, hey, let's go get a base, let's go to a baseball game on the weekend together. And I can't do that. But we we find ways to connect. We, you know, and I think that we find ways to connect online. Our kids do too. Um, and they're authentic ways. They are real connection. It's not fake. It's these real relationships that are being built. And and that can happen, I think, in sometimes a more authentic way in a virtual learning space than in a classroom where there's so much teaching to attest and so much standard, you know, one size fits all education that leaves some kids behind and helps and makes them feel more ostracized. It makes them feel like they're not a part of the group.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

It's very uh very well said. Just playing devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

That's no, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

If we can move into the lightning realm, so just rapid fire, quick questions, first thing that comes to mind, no explanation needed, okay?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

All right. Most overrated ed tech trend right now.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Oh gosh. I don't even know. AI tutoring, not a thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

One thing parents overthink about their kids learning.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

That they're gonna mess it up somehow.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

About something they underthink.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Uh, the importance of interest-based learning and things that spark learning.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Best free resource for a curious kid.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Curiosity stream? It's a Netflix, but it's just all documentaries and like how to type videos.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

How about a sign that a kid is in the wrong learning environment?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Anxiety, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

If you could whisper one piece of advice to a parent of an elementary schooler right now, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Elementary school's not gonna matter all that much when they're an adult.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

All right. Cassie, this has been incredibly valuable. I appreciate your time coming on. Um, you know, for parents that want to learn more and want to go deeper with you, like what's the best place for them to find you in outschool when where should they check out first?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah, outschool.com would be the place to go. They can search an account is free. They can look at classes without having to even sign up for an account. So I would say that would be the best place to find them. And then we also have a blog that I've contributed to a lot. And we have a lot of other contributors that they can check out with a lot of like how to teach, where to get started, and you know, if you're exploring various schooling options, kind of what is what's out there and what laws are available to you because they vary across states.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

And uh before we wrap, like what's one thing you want people to remember from this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

I want people to know that, you know, the one size fits all model that schools are kind of forced into just doesn't work for all kids. It works for some and it's great. And I'm definitely not an advocate of getting rid of public education. But I think that thinking outside of the box is so beneficial to our kids and to the next generation. And I want parents to trust their instincts and their guts. And if they feel like something's not working, start exploring what they could do and alternatively. It doesn't have to be homeschooling. There's so many other options out there that they can find the right fit for their kids that'll help them thrive.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

All right, Cassie. Thank you. I appreciate you sharing the playbook with us today and everyone listening. Remember, don't have to play the game the way the system is set up. You can find the foundation, build the skills, and get the results without the burnout. So we'll put all of her links in the show notes and the YouTube description below. And thank you all for tuning in to the Supported Learning Podcast. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Thanks for joining us on the Supported Learning Podcast. If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker. We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together. Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.